I have been reading some of the Right-Wing Blogs, and they either don’t get it, or they do and believe that anything that will protect them from the great terrorist boggy man is Ok by them.
Don’t they ever get the point, Domestic spying is illegal. The Bush Administration know this. They also know that any evidence acquired in this method can never be used in an American Court of Law. It would be thrown out for being illegally obtained, this is why the FISA courts began denying so many of the taps requested by this Administration.
If they can not use this information to bring criminals and terrorist to trial, what good is it?
It’s being used to snatch people in the U.S., and other countries, for the other illegal act they are promoting, Rendition, a pretty word for Kidnapping and Torture.
Hasn’t anyone else figured this out yet?
Bush and Chaney had no intention of ‘bringing terrorist to justice’ they are too busy establishing a Rein of Terror of their own.
Impeach Bush, Chaney and the rest of this corrupt and Illegal government.
Update: FBI Sought Data on Thousands in ’05
Updated again: The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans
Any more arguments?
If domestic spying, as you are defining it, was happening, then it might very well be. The fact of the matter is that, We are spying on known terrorists domestically. It is not as if we are spying on the average ‘Joe Blow”. Our ‘spying’ is on international calls, with one end being in America, and the other end, being somewhere foreign–with the person on that end being suspected of terrorist activity.
This story by the NY Times, which by the way, is from an illegal leak of highly classified National Security information, tries to paint a bogus picture. This picture, based upon mere speculation, not facts, suggests the the NSA is spying on you and me. This is simply untrue.
What I see here, is a planned ploy for the anti-Bush agenda, on the liberal left.
Now, you have said it yourself, that you do not believe the threat of terrorism. I quote: great terrorist boggy man. Apparently, you are unaware of the worldwide atrocities carried out by radical Islamic terrorists, over the last 40 years. 9/11, being the worst of them all, with a total casualty count of nearly 3000, was the last straw.
The fact that we finally have a president who is not a wimpering coward, is what perhaps makes you so offended and angry. After all, Clinton had the opportunity to capture Bin Laden twice, but was too afraid of the political outcry from the U.N. Bush would have said “Screw you!”, and you know it.
Well, it seems to me that you are more interested in defeating Bush, than you are defeating the actual real enemy; those who wish to behead you, I, and our children.
Good luck getting anyone with a brain to listen to your nonsense.
Regards,
Brent Roos
http://brentroos.blogspot.com
Brent, you mention a few things you might want to rethink.
1) How do you know that only ‘terrorist’ and not ‘Joe Blow’ is being spied upon?
Who is being spied on is “secret”, with no court oversight to determine if ‘Probable Cause’ indicates the subject IS a Terrorist?
2) If they are ‘Known terrorist’ then the assumption is that they ARE terrorist, and criminals, and can be arrested, so a court issued
warrant would be an easy thing to obtain from the FISA court. And it would still be secret!
3) I am not a terrorist, but my folks are in the U.S. and therefore, in you opinion, I should be spied upon. Illegal!
4) Warrant-less wire taps are Illegal. Period! No ifs, ands or buts! And any terrorist known or unknown will have this ‘evidence’ thrown
out of court in a heartbeat because it is illegal. So what good is it?
5) Bush knew this was illegal a year ago when he tried to suppress it in the press, prior to the election,
a) would he have been reelected, had it come out then?
b) why wasn’t an investigation begun then, into the leaks. And would this ‘investigation’ have gotten him reelected?
What I believe is that there ARE terrorist, and have been for a lot longer than 40 years. And not just Islamic in nature, Islamic is just another tidy moniker to tie them up into a ‘threat’. I also know that just like any good conspiracy it only involves the fewest number necessary to carry out the actions of the conspirators. I know that there are not thousands of terrorist in the U.S.
But to ‘browse’ the communications systems in the U.S. would require, REQUIRE the NSA to listen to EVERYONE passing through that ‘switch’. I know the technology, I helped build some of it, so I know. Every word of every conversation would be scanned. And guess what, if a real terrorist cell wanted to pass information, they would pass sticky notes to each other. And you would never hear a word from your ‘browsing’
You actually think that the Bush Administration is wasting its time spying on you? That’s truly beyond laughable, absurd, and wacko thinking.
You can’t fool me. You hated Bush before any of this nonsense came out, and you will continue to hate him for any other reason you can find. Admit it. You’ve hated Bush since 2001, because you were mad that he was elected to begin with. Admit it. You are no different that any other Bush-basher out there. I smell you from miles away.
What I believe is that there ARE terrorist, and have been for a lot longer than 40 years
I am speaking specifically with whom we were attacked by and are at war with. You know, the ones who killed 3000 Americans less than 5 years ago?
You information about the NSA is based upon speculation. Where exactly are you getting this information from? Can you cite any actual proof of your claims? Have you visited any government sites detailing the program?
How unfortunate that you have no answers for the questions I posed for you.
And how typical of a ‘believer’, no rational thinking involved. Just childish name calling.
But that’s typical isn’t it, blind obedience to King George. After all, George would never lie to me, he has an honest face.
I didn’t vote for him, you are correct, but hate is something Republicans teach. Distrust, you bet, he is, and was a politician without a concrete agenda. And I trust ALL Politicians, three pegs lower than I would a used car salesman.
As for the NSA, I don’t have to know what they were doing, I only have to know how they would have to have attempted the task. I do communications work. I understand the ‘switch’ that they would have had to tap. If you imagine that there is some tech clipping wires onto a panel with a hand set, and a recorder. You don’t understand the technology, and I won’t take the time to explain it to you. They were listening to everyone on the ‘switch’.
hate is something Republicans teach
Truly laughable! Is that a fact? If you can point me to where this information is chronicled, I’d most appreciate it.
By the way, I’m an independant conservative.
To satisfy you, by answering your questions:
1) I can only answer this with another question (or two): How do you know that the government is spying on the average Joe Blow? Why be so pessimistic and assuming?
2) Suspected to associate with known terrorists. Are you aware of the element of surprise?
3) Nice of you to assume what I think. Are your parents radical Islamo facists, with the desire to destroy my country? If so, then yes, they deserve to be spied upon; if not I wouldn’t waste my time.
4) According to what? Are you aware of Constitutional clauses, and executive order during war? As a non-American, you don’t probably don’t.
5) I can answer this by simply stating that Bush has done what needs to be done to protect the American people. As a American, I can say that he has done a decent job at this. Have we been attacked since 9/11? Have we been attacked since these policies have come into place? Are everyday Americans effected by these surveillence policies? Yes, but not for being spied upon. We are happy to have been protected against attack.
Would this cause Bush to not get reelected? No, just like none of the other many bits of anti-Bush propaganda mattered either. Bush recieved over 50% of the vote, which hasn’t happened in 30 years.
Simply put: we like Bush.
Since you aren’t an American anyway, why does this wiretapping make you so mad, since it has absolutely nothing to do with you?
Where are you getting all of this anti-Bush propaganda from? Let me guess: The BBC!
By the way: you’re not a communist, as the typical modern liberal disguises himself/herself as a liberal but is truly a communist/socialist –are you? Just wondering.
More of the same, Hostility and hate, you have been well programed.
I’ll point you to A reference, though I doubt that you will bother as you are too deeply invested in your hate. Why I am not a Conservative. a hate born of fear.
Now to answer your questions.
1)The technology of communications is digital, and packet, a protocol called ATM. All long distance phone communications use this method. There to listen to a single conversation, you must intercept ALL packets on a channel. And listen on ALL channels to intercept all the packets to any one phone number. That means that every phone conversation, to every number, on every channel to every person using that switch is being listened to.
That’s how I know. Now, here’s another: Bush Authorized Domestic Spying Before 9/11
2) What surprise, does the terrorist not know he is a terrorist? Naive, not likely.
I’ll give you a code based on this sentence: 5-4-6-8-10-13
3) No, my parents are republicans like you. My father is a WWII vet, so are both my uncles, and my Aunt. My grandfather was a WWI vet, and my great-grandfather the Civil war (confederate doctor) vet. How’s your bloodline. They all fought for freedoms that you willingly allow Bush to throw away.
4) Firstly, I am aware of it, second The president is over stepping that ‘rule’ for a trumped up war for oil on false pretenses. And as you can already tell, I am a U.S. Citizen worried about the Nazi takeover of my country.
5) How can you tell what he’s done, with negative evidence, are there terrorist being brought to trial, or are they secretly being carried away in the night? How would you know when the secret police might come for you? What legal, and constitutional recourse would you have? We are a people of laws not of dictators.
I am not communist, I am a U.S. Patriot, when are you going become one?
PS: Why does you return email keep changing Brent, are you afraid of something?
I am the hateful one? Who is being hostile? Please look in the mirror, because you are totally contradicting your own claims. I do not hate anyone. You obviously hate folks like me.
Can you point to a single example of my hatred?
I too come from a long line of war veterans. In fact, one of my grandfathers was very decorated, including a Silver Star and a Purple Heart. Just thought I’d let you know.
Yes, I know what ATM is. Thanks for assuming my intelligence is inferior to yours. Actually I am a CCNA, and have studied other networking as well in college and after.
Your argument is flawed. We are not just randomly listening, but rather listening for specifics. Just because packets are mined, does not mean anything. Phone companies already do this. ISPs do as well. All records are available for either of these things which are stored. For a price, anyone can get any of this information. So there goes the packet argument. Besides, we are talking long distance, ie, overseas. Therefore this is not domestic spying. This is international spying.
I know who your are, and why you argue this. You hate Bush. Again, who is the hateful one? Did you hate the other presidents who spied? You act as if this is a new procedure. During the Cold War, the NSA, as well as other intelligence, spied much much more than we are talking about in this specific instance.
You need to realize that this is WWIII. Our enemy is far more dangerous than The Soviet Union was. With the Soviets, we had mutual assured destruction, which prevented any war. Al-Qaida does not have a specific country, especially now that we have liberated Iraq and Afghanistan. That is a very good reason that we need to keep track of terrorists. If some spying is needed, so be it. It does not bother me a bit. I know that I am not being spied on. If the govenrment does spy on me as you claim, do you really think that they are going to waste their time, continuing to spy on me for more than two seconds? This is obviously only assuming that you are right, which I do not think is the case.
Now that we get a bin Laden “promise” of attacks, don’t you feel a bit silly about criticizing those who are only trying to protect your family’s lives?
I am beginning to think that people like yourself are just as much of a problem to our country as the terrorists themselves. Aiding the enemy might just make you just as much the enemy.
Nazis are taking over our country? Do you even know who the Nazis were? What does Nazi stand for? I’ll give you a hint: They weren’t capitalists. I laugh at such rhetoric, and the Nazi simile. It’s such a joke. Thanks for the laugh.
I am not communist, I am a U.S. Patriot, when are you going become one?
Reinventing the definition of Patriot? I’ll define it for you: One who loves, supports, and defends one’s country. That pretty well describes my attitude toward America. How about you? You sound like a rebel to me.
How would you know when the secret police might come for you?
I am not a terrorist, so I’m not the least bit worried.
trumped up war for oil on false pretenses
Nice cliche argument –so if this is truly the case, why are we still paying for oil from other sources? Why aren’t we getting cheap Iraqi oil?
I wish that you would actually provide some proof for your claims. All you have ever provided is speculation. To make a valid argument, valid, you must provide substantiation. Unfortunately, the link you provided, is not good enough. Anyone can author a webpage which suggests something on a certain topic. This link you provided is nothing but conspiricy theory. I need actual proof. You cannot provide it. Period.
Say that we stop the “spying“. Then al-Qaida attacks us. Are you going to say that Bush didn’t do enough to connect the dots? Can Bush do anything correctly to a person of your opinion?
Sorry, but you have failed to convince me of anything. I also work in IT, and I know exactly how this works. I also know that data-mining is not new at all. Is google part of this Nazi Conspricy? Is Echelon? Just curious. If a private sector company does it, then it’s fine with you, but if the National Security Agency does it, in the name of protecting America’s children, women , and men, you call them Nazis“.
Once again, thanks for the laugh. I find your arguments to be utterly ignorant, and blindingly critical. Admit it, if you didn’t know about this, you’d just find another reason to hate Bush. You are not fooling anybody but yourself.
Another question before ending this discussion, whose side are you on? Are you on the side of the terrorists, or the ones trying to (and successfully) preventing further attacks?
Why does you return email keep changing Brent, are you afraid of something?
Um, ever haerd of spam? I don’t give out my email address to anyone outside of my personal contacts. Are you suggesting that I am afraid of you? What the hell are you talking about? Nice try to make me look weak. I am strong and you cannot deal with it.
You are a conspiricy theorist. There is obviously zero doubt about that. However, I would fight to the death to preserve your right to say whatever you want. Every American has the right to freedom of speech. There is no such thing as ‘the freedom to be listened to’.
“We are not just randomly listening, but rather listening for specifics.”
You made my point, they are listening to everyone, Companies are barred from listening to the data traffic they store. And require a court order to release this information. Why doesn’t the president need one?
Besides, we are talking long distance, ie, overseas.
How do you know? You ask for evidence, where’s yours.
Now that we get a bin Laden “promise†of attacks, don’t you feel a bit silly
No, George ‘promised’ to catch this man. How do you feel?
“What does Nazi stand for?”
You don’t! So I won’t bother to explain it to you.
Reinventing the definition of Patriot?
A Patriot, is one who defends the foundations of U.S., The Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And your freedom to hold an opposing viewpoint from my own.
How are you defending my rights to hold an opinion different from yours?
By name calling? Thanks, I’ll pass, on your definition of a patriot.
why are we still paying for oil from other sources
Partly because we use so much oil in our SUV that no one source could supply us.
The big question to you about Oil is this. How would you know where the oil is coming from, how much is being paid? How would you know how much profit the oil companies are making? What was the first thing ‘restored’ in Iraq? I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t the water supply.
I would love to have more proof. But you have none either. The old adage is this, without reliable data, I’m only another A__ H___ with an opinion.
Can Bush do anything correctly to a person of your opinion?
He could be honest, uphold the constitution, protect the civil liberties of the citizens of the U.S.. Stop the torture and illegal prisons. That would be a start.
whose side are you on?
I’m on the side of the Citizens of the United States of America. Who’s civil, personal and religious liberties are part of what the terrorist attacked. But if you allow Bush and Neo-Con’s to take away the very foundation of the U.S.A.. Then the terrorist have already won! And you are the one helping the terrorist in that regard. Not me.
PS: Yes, I know what spam is, I use a spam filter, and a Mac.
if you allow Bush and Neo-Con’s to take away the very foundation of the U.S.A.. Then the terrorist have already won! And you are the one helping the terrorist in that regard.
Do you honestly believe that Bush and the conservatives are out to take away the rights of Americans? Do you seriously believe that? I find it mind-boggling if this is the case. Give me a break. Talk about being extreme.
Perhaps you disagree with the way that the government is pursuing al-Qaida, but don’t forget that Bush recieved bi-partisan support directly after 9/11 and before the war in Iraq. Conveniently, the liberal dems retract their statements and votes, in the year before and during an election year. Wow, it takes a brain surgeon to figure this out. Where have you been? Oh yeah, Ireland.
How are you defending my rights to hold an opinion different from yours?
By name calling? Thanks, I’ll pass, on your definition of a patriot.
Care to specify?
“What does Nazi stand for?â€
You don’t! So I won’t bother to explain it to you.
I don’t? How the hell would you know? Nice copout. Really do you know? Obviously not, or else your brilliant mind would have not hesitated to answer.
Nazi stands for:National Socialist German Workers Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, commonly called NSDAP or the Nazi Party). They were Socialists! Is Bush this sort of socialist? Are you blindingly ignorant in your Bush-bashing rhetoric?
I use a spam filter, and a Mac
Aren’t you special? Did I ask what operating system you use? Do I care? Am I going to give Apple Corp. a high-five? I use several different oses and platforms, myself, all for different tasks and reasons. Also, webmail is my preference. So freakin what?
He could be honest, uphold the constitution, protect the civil liberties of the citizens of the U.S.. Stop the torture and illegal prisons. That would be a start.
You mean lying about the NSA program? Hasn’t Bush been very forthright about this when confronted? Perhaps he didn’t come right out and mention it since it was, I dunno, um, classified National Security information! By the way, is it really yours or my business what intelligence is done behind the scenes? If you or I know, wouldn’t that also mean that the enemy knows?
Who is worse to you, in your opinion: George W. Bush or Usama bin Laden? I just want to know.
I would love to have more proof. But you have none either. The old adage is this, without reliable data, I’m only another A__ H___ with an opinion.
Am I to assume that this does not apply to you? In America, criminals are innocent until proven guilty. Why don’t you live up to this standard?
Partly because we use so much oil in our SUV that no one source could supply us.
Ah…now the cat is out of the bag. You’re one of those wackos! I get it now.
How do you know? You ask for evidence, where’s yours.
Evidence that I’m not being spied upon? Those of us with common sense, know that the NSA is far to busy to spy on a law abiding citizen such as myself. Besides, if the NSA wanted to know something, I’d gladly give them all of the information that they want to know. I am a cooperative citizen, willing to do my part in the War on terror (WWIII). The question is, are you willing to do your part, outside of criticizing every policy we use to attempt to defeat and destroy an enemy who wishes death and destruction of the innocent citizens of America?
No, my parents are republicans like you.
I’m a republican? Again, I am an independant conservative. Apparently, you only read or hear what you want to hear. It is in a previous post (since you missed it.) I would perhaps vote for a democratic candidate, if there were any worth voting for. If Zell Miller, a conservative Democrat, similar in ideals to Harry S. Truman and John F. Kennedy, were to run for president, then it would take a very seriously strong republican candidate to sway me. Unfortunately, the hard left (communists/socialists) have taken over the democratic party. Don’t you know that progressive liberal, is just the nice way of saying communist? Too bad. Coward Dean and George Sorhos own the party now, and the only result is less and less votes for them. Look at how ridiculous many leaders in the democratic party look. Ted Kennedy is a babbling hypocrite. Hillary Clinton has to speak further to the right than she can even bear to, except when speaking directly before her own constituents. Coward Dean might as well call himself Michael Moore. By the way, seen any good Moore “films” lately?
Perhaps you have spent a bit too much time overseas to fully grasp America anymore. America is vastly conservative. If you don’t like it this way, perhaps you will consider not coming back.
I know that you are a liberal, just by your ‘talking points’. I find it bizarre that so many of your are so quick to assume how others outside of your own little relm think. You assumed that I am a republican, which proves that point. FYI, I’m not. I’m an independant. I don’t even agree with many issues and policies of the Bush administration. However, when concerned with National Security, and Foreign Policy, he does superbly, reminiscent of the late and great Ronald Reagan.
You just don’t get it. We are at war with a determined enemy. Will it take another 9/11 or two before you understand what we are talking about here? Are you aware that al-Qaida wants to use nuclear weapons against us? How do you suppose that we will stop them without spying? If a nuke goes off in America, because we failed to gather the intelligence quickly enough to prevent it, then what? Logic supercedes anything else in war strategy. Were you in the U.S. on 9/11? This is a very important question, because of the emotion involved.
“All of us are grateful that our nation has gone four years and four months without another 9/11,” Cheney said. “America has been protected not by luck, but by sensible policy decisions … by decisive action at home and abroad … and by round-the-clock efforts on the part of people in law enforcement, intelligence, the military and homeland security.” Dick Cheney…This is something you might want to consider before your Bush-bashing.
And yes, I am a flag waving Patriot –and have been even before the war. I have been a proud American Patriot, my entire 29 years of existence.
I’ll point you to A reference, though I doubt that you will bother as you are too deeply invested in your hate. Why I am not a Conservative. a hate born of fear.
I’m glad that you refer to a European definition of liberalist democracy (socialism). Weren’t we, the Americans, the ones who freed the world from the oppressive constraints of European facism, socialism, and communism, in the 20th century? When did history begin for you? It wasn’t 1965 –the liberal communist historical revolutionary revision was it? From now on, I suggest that you use a bit of historical perspective in your arguments. Furthermore, since this is WWIII, don’t you think we ought to look back in history to WWII and WWI when considering how to strategically gain victory over the enemy? Sure, times and technology have changed, but so has the will (for some) of the American people to be the greatest nation on earth. Some things (for many of us) have not changed, especially when talking about life or death situations. If al-Qaida attacks NYC, or any other U.S. city, I do take it personally, especially since it could have been me, and al-Qaida does not regard whomever it kills. It’s only aim is to destroy America, including innocent children. They are barbaric. In my opinion, they are lucky to not be tortured. They do not deserve any sympathy whatsoever. The fact that some liberals in America symathize with this animal-like enemy, is bruatally sickening to me. I do not hate anyone, but I sincerely despise anyone who takes side with these barbarians. Also, those who choose to ignore their barbaric acts of evil, are just as guilty. The firey pit awaits these people.
This is tiring, I can read all your responses from the RNC web page.
You may call yourself an ‘Independent’ Conservative, but you act like a Republican Clone.
Your actions speak so loudly, I can not hear what you say.
You are so conditioned by the republican propaganda you wouldn’t even know the truth if it hit you in the face. And I believe you must have your TV tuned into Fox News most of the day.
Do you believe that the 3000 who died in 9/11 are as important as the 30,000 to 50,000 Iraqi civilians that have died for your revenge? Did the 3000 wish to kill 2000+ American soldiers and wound 15,000 in a ‘War’ with people that DID NOT ATTACK US in the first place?
When is your blood lust enough?
I would love to have the U.S. pursue Al Qaida, when is Bush going to start?
It benefits Bush to have an enemy to always point to. So there is no motivation to eliminate the threat.
This is not a war like WWII, so I will not justify it with a title like that. It may be RWI (resource war 1) or OFA1 (Oil for America 1) but it is not really WWIII, it is not the religious crusade that you would have it be.
The name for NAZI had nothing to do with the nature of that party. Just like the Republicans, the name is only a convenient tag. The republican and NAZI were, by their acts, Radical Nationalist supported by capitalist elitist. Neo-Cons.
Believing that words like “Communists or wacko, Liberal and traitor or ‘supporting the enemy’ ” have any value in the discussion of the facts then you need a refresher course in clear thinking.
I’ll give you one point, I don’t think most of the Democrats are worth spit either. And like I said earlier. All Politicians are dirt beneath a used car salesman foot.
One other note: I was in the U.S. during 9/11 and I know the emotional content, I just don’t allow it to control my head.
and this is how your votes are counted. Sign of Fascim
I was in the U.S. during 9/11 and I know the emotional content, I just don’t allow it to control my head
This is the problem. Perhaps you too quickly forget the carnage.
No I don’t watch Fox News all day. I work.
You contuinue to compare republicans to Nazis. Are you aware of how stupid that sounds?
Once again, I’m not a republican. I wish a third party were able to actually be cast into ballot. Not gonna happen. I am independant. I am not affiliated. I am an individual thinker. I happen to agree that we must protect ourselves, as well as the rest of civilized society from midevil-type barbarians like al-Qaida.
I>I would love to have the U.S. pursue Al Qaida, when is Bush going to start?
Are you actually suggesting that the people of Iraq, the millions who voted for their freedom from tyranny, are fighting us? Who the hell do you think we are fighting over there? It’s al-Qaida! You are so grossly ignorant on the subject, that you ought to consider saving yourself from further embarassment, at this point. Furthermore, do you forget about other troops deplyed, including in Afghanistan, which are fighting what –al-Qaida.
Yes, this is WWIII. It is only the beginning. With all that is happening with Iran, China, Russia reestablishing a dictatotrship, among other enemies aligning with this anti-western axis –including Venezuela, Libya, Sudan, even Mexico possibly, and don’t forget N. Korea, things are quickly falling into an unfortunate position. It is reminiscent of historical events prior to the first two world wars. Things are not good. However, now is not the time to cower.
As far as spying goes, once again, it has been happening for far longer than the Bush Administration. Clinton did very similar warantless spying, and not even during war. Notice how he hasn’t been too awfully vocal and critical of this? Is it because he also did it?
Look at it like this: There is no need for any warrant when you have probable cause. For example, in a much much less significant threat to our society, I can be pulled over by the State, County, or City Police. If for some reason, they have reason to believe that I have any contraband in my possesion, they can search and seize my property, because they have probable cause, or reason to believe that I have been doing something harmful to myself or others.
So I ask you this: On a much larger scale, we are trying to prevent attacks from terrorists on our country. If we have probable cause or reason to believe that these type of attacks will happen, why ridicule, criticisze, and/or scrutinize law enforcement for following a typical warrantless probable cause procedure? We have much probable cause, including bin Laden himself promising such attacks.
The only reason we even do it is to protect the innocent. Do you honestly believe that Bush spies for his own personal gain? That is beyond absurd!
it is not the religious crusade that you would have it be
I would have it be? Al-Qaida is who claims this, not anyone else. They call it Jihad, or holy war. We call it the war on Terror, aka war on ‘Jihad’, aka war on ‘the holy war’, aka WWIII. Nice attempted twist.
Yes there are communists in America who criticize every move of Bush and any supporters of capitalism. It is called the hard-left aka modern liberals, aka progressives like the Progressive Caucus (formerly called Democratic Socialists of America),(whose leader is Nancy Pelosi), aka the modern Democratic leadership of Dean, Pelosi, and Reid. The mainstream media seems to be obsessed with pointing out these anti-Bush ravings, including those of pro-communist Harry Belafonte. It is quite unfortunate. I wish it were different, but I tend to stick with something I like to call reality. I’m pretty sure you are stuck a bit outside of this.
The name for NAZI had nothing to do with the nature of that party. Just like the Republicans, the name is only a convenient tag. …and..
Believing that words like “Communists or wacko, Liberal and traitor or ’supporting the enemy’ †have any value in the discussion of the facts then you need a refresher course in clear thinking.
This is actually in the same post!
How does this not apply on your side? Liberal is just a convenient tag for socialist. Aren’t you being a bit hypocritical, speaking of convenient tags?
Do you believe that the 3000 who died in 9/11 are as important as the 30,000 to 50,000 Iraqi civilians that have died for your revenge? Did the 3000 wish to kill 2000+ American soldiers and wound 15,000 in a ‘War’ with people that DID NOT ATTACK US in the first place?
Um, did we cause the terrorists to kill 3000 in America and 30,000-to 50,000 (quite the broad estimate huh)? Didn’t bin Laden, and other terrorists actually do the killing? Does our mere presence in Iraq kill 50,000 civilians? Also, aren’t terrorists technically civialians? They’re not in an actual military. They don’t wear a uniform. Perhaps some of those 30,000-50,000 were terrorists. It is not revenge. It is to destroy any capability for any possible further attack on America and peace-loving societies.
Sorry but you are rapidly losing this debate.
Yes, this is WWIII. It is only the beginning. With all that is happening with Iran, China, Russia reestablishing a dictatotrship, among other enemies aligning with this anti-western axis –including Venezuela, Libya, Sudan, even Mexico possibly, and don’t forget N. Korea, things are quickly falling into an unfortunate position. It is reminiscent of historical events prior to the first two world wars. Things are not good. However, now is not the time to cower.
You have seriously fallen off your medication. haven’t you. Come on now, admit it.
And put down that copy of ‘Red Dawn’ and back away from the fantasy.
And did you know that freedom of speech includes everyone in the U.S., not just conservatives. That means that the “communists”, “modern liberals”, “Democratic Socialist” and anyone else you might have named, are free, NAY encouraged by the Constitution of the United States to speak their opinions. Are encouraged to peaceful assembly, and freedom of Religion, including the practice of Islam.
If you cannot support these freedoms, perhaps it is you who needs to find a better country, maybe someplace up in the mountains in Idaho. Because I’m sure from your last posting even the Republicans wouldn’t want to associated with you.
Go get your prescription refilled.
One more thing, just in case you didn’t notice. This web site is hosted in a Foreign country. And maybe you needed the GOP to know that (payday and all), but you are being spied upon by the NSA, as you are passing secrets out of the country embedded in your messages.
Speak clearly into the Microphone. 😉
More interesting opinions here;
Top Ten Mistakes of the Bush Administration in Reacting to Al-Qaeda
And maybe you needed the GOP to know that (payday and all), but you are being spied upon by the NSA, as you are passing secrets out of the country embedded in your messages.
???????
Are you in another country or another planet?
By the way, I’m glad that your evidence of mistakes comes from another biased opinion. That’s a great source of “proof”.
Why do libs always go to Juan Cole for guidence? Just wondering.
Worldwide leaders have called this the third world war. Also, it is most commonly referred to as the Global War on Terror. Global War, or World War. Obviously, you don’t have the ability to put pieces of the puzzle together or connect the dots properly. Even Bush has called it this ‘third world war’. It has also been refered to as ‘global conflict’.
I am not on any medication by the way. I am extremley healthy, mentally and physically. Perhaps you are the one out of balance.
By the way, you continue to dodge the issues.
I have already said that I support Freedom of Speech. We all have this right. There is no such thing as Freedom to be Heard though. Also, these freedoms do not include aiding the enemies of America. That is treason, which you will also find in the Constitution.
including the practice of Islam
You are so assuming. I happen to have Muslim friends which I respect very much. I do not have any quarrel with them whatsoever. In fact, they speak out against the Islamo Facism of radical Islam far more than I. Most true Muslims are God fearing and peaceful; friendly to Christians and Jews. As a Christian, I also feel the same way. You label me and judge me without even having a clue as to what you’re talking about.
You can point to other blogs all you want. Go ahead and read others opinions and make them your own. I myself, am an idependant thinker. I don’t need others to tell me how to think. I process information myself; in my own brain. Why can’t you do this?
Are you aware of the terrorist plots that were thwarted because of “spying“? Are you uninformed about other countries doing the exact same thing, most notably, in European countries?
Again, we are not spying on average Americans. Keep singing your nattering and repetitive ‘moonbat songs’. You are truly in a minority.
If you truly believe that the NSA is spending the time, money, resources, and manpower to “spy” on average everyday Americans, making calls to each other within the U.S. (not international), you are beyond misinformed. You are beyond a conspiricy theorist. You are a complete wacko.
Here’s what I tend to believe: You are a wacko. You are a hardcore (far out of mainstream) leftist with an anti-Bush agenda. To you it does not matter what he does or how he does it. You absolutely hate him, and want him gone. You and your partners in hard-left liberalism will do whatever it takes to make Bush look bad, even if it means that you must be a complete and utter liar.
Does the wackiness of the left, not embarrass you?
Are you a communist supporter, or just sympathizer? Just curious. I agree that even commie Americans have the right to voice their opinion, but I don’t, in a single way, defend their position.
Speaking of war, should we also allow Iran to obtain a nuclear weapon? Most of the world opposes this (even Russia!).
I’m starting to feel sorry for you.
By the way, again, I’m not Republican or GOP, as you continuously insist! Like I said before, you only read or hear what you want. You completely ignore the rest, because it does not coincide with your argument.
How does it feel to be so out of touch with reality?
You may want to refer to this:
This will help to inform you about the offical policies.
Also, note the header:Fighting a Global War on Terror. Global War.
Why is it that you only know how to call people names. Everyone is a ‘wacko’ if they hold a differing viewpoint from your own.
I’m glad that your evidence of mistakes comes from another biased opinion
Your opinion is Biased, what makes your opinion any better than mine?
Even Bush has called it this ‘third world war’.
Bush would be the last (coward, draft dodger) I’d believe about war.
Also, these freedoms do not include aiding the enemies of America. That is treason, which you will also find in the Constitution.You can point to other blogs all you want
I do, it’s call being informed, had having a broad education I learn a great deal from all perspectives. Something you might try ones in a while.
Your definition of ‘independent thinker’ sounds more and more like closed minded bigot from here.
Are you aware of the terrorist plots that were thwarted
Are you? Funny I haven’t seen any arrests?
Again, we are not spying on average Americans
‘We’ Do you work for the NSA? Very interesting. Your source of information about this comes from where?
You are a hardcore (far out of mainstream) leftist
You wouldn’t know hardcore leftist if it hit you in the face, and from where you are sitting you can’t even see the mainstream.
The Iranians were building a Nuclear Weapon back when the Shah was still in power. It’s nothing new, and by all measure they are at least 5 years way from that stage. Considering the Rummy and his buddies have altered U.S. policy to allow first strike Nuclear strikes against non nuclear countries. Is it any wonder that the Iranians feel threatened?
I’m not Republican or GOP Actually I stated that the Republicans wouldn’t claim you at this point.
Reality, I’m just glad I don’t live in your fantasy..err Nightmare.
Bush would be the last (coward, draft dodger) I’d believe about war.
Did Bill Clinton dodge the Draft? Yes, in fact, he rallied against the Vietnam War in Moscow, Russia Prague, Czechoslovakia, and N. Vietnam.
Bush served in the National Guard as a fighter jet pilot. He was never ordered to even go to Vietnam. You are so absolutely wrong, it is hilarious! Where do you come up with this crap?
Your definition of ‘independent thinker’ sounds more and more like closed minded bigot from here.
You are the bandwagoning, Koolaid drinking, Bush-hating, complainer! I personally enjoy being alive and agree that America should defend itself from being blown up by al-Qaida.
How exactly am I a bigot? Can you name an example of my bigotry?
Who is more dangerous in your opinion? Is is Osama bin Laden or George W. Bush? I’m pretty sure I know the answer, but I want to hear it from you.
it’s call being informed, had having a broad education I learn a great deal from all perspectives
As do I. I spend much time reading…books! You know, works that are published by authors. That is were legitimate (and useful) information usually comes from. Newspapers may also fall into this.
BLOGS ARE NOT THE NEWS.
Liberals do not seem to grasp this for some reason. Blogs are only opinions. I am very educated, and very well informed. Also, I now am pursing a Master’s Degree, for your information. Thank you for assuming such superior intelligence over me (assume = ass/u+me).
I have already said that I support Freedom of Speech. We all have this right. There is no such thing as Freedom to be Heard though. Also, these freedoms do not include aiding the enemies of America. That is treason, which you will also find in the Constitution.
That was the actual quote from me. Thanks for misquoting and/or taking it out of context.
Are you aware of the terrorist plots that were thwarted
Are you? Funny I haven’t seen any arrests?
You haven’t seen the arrests, therefore they did not happen? Where have you been? Under a rock? Um, ever heard of Jose Padilla?
I will point you to here. That is the official press release from the Office of the Press Secretary of the White House. If the liberals that run the mainstream press put in in the back of the newspaper, it is your duty to find it if you want to be informed on the issues. You and I both know that the Bush-bashing rhetoric is what make the headline news
But you may also read here and here>. Both of these links are from two of the highest rated cable news channel’s websites. Just wanted to point you to the proof, since you weren’t aware.
You can get the actual facts from the links I provided. Research them further, if you wish to further educate yourself on the matter. It is true, and you just most likely hate to hear that you are wrong and/or un/misinformed.
Where do you get your news? Is it from blogs? Since you like blogs so much, give these links a look: here and here.
Hopefully you can expand your perspective.
Again, we are not spying on average Americans
‘We’ Do you work for the NSA? Very interesting. Your source of information about this comes from where?
First of all, you completely dodge the issue.
Second:
‘We’, as in we Americans. Common sense tells me that the NSA is not spending money, manpower, time, or resources spying on me or anyone I know. They are looking for terrorists. Also, that is the official position of the elected representatives of the legislative branch aka Congress. Congress authorized Bush to use whatever he needed to prevent attacks. They granted him the authority, almost unanimously, in bi-partisan fashion. It has only been since the 2004-2006 election years that the Democrats retract their votes and statements. In 2002, they wanted to seem more hawkish I suppose, but they have been very inconsistent in the war. On the other hand, Republicans, especially Bush/Cheney have been very consistent since 9/12/01. The Attorney General also proclaims that this program is constitutional. He is the head of law enforcement in America. If it is illegal, he would know and most assuredly point it out.
Are you against the actual spying or just the warrant-less part? What would you say if the Supreme Court rules that this spying is Constitutional? Further, what will you say if legislation is passed that specifically authorizes this? I’d bet that one or the other will be happening eventually.
Also, what do you say about Italy, France, Germany, and UK doing the exact same thing?
By the way, your hopes of a Bush impeachment is laughable, as if it will ever happen. I’m willing to bet that all of this harping and critical scrutiny is only digging a deeper and deeper grave for the Democrats come November.
The Dems have absolutely humiliated themselves time and time again in recent times with their blatant partisan games. Take the Alito hearing for instance. It was an absolute joke. Alito ran circles around them and made utter asses out of their pursuant interrogations.
How come you never actually answer any of my relevant questions? You only attempt to character assassinate.
When I say wacko, it is an adjective for usage in description of a noun; liberal. Another way to say this would be eccentric or irrational. I would say that any rationale on this matter, escapes you.
Speaking of Constitutional infringements, Congress and the Judiciary is overstepping it’s authority. The president, as Commander-In-Chief, has the authority he needs to conduct warplans –during war. Guess what? We are at war. I argue that Democrats in Congress are attempting to block Bush’s war strategy, which by the way, is adherent in the Constitution, regarding the President’s authority during war.
You are a hardcore (far out of mainstream) leftist
You wouldn’t know hardcore leftist if it hit you in the face, and from where you are sitting you can’t even see the mainstream.
Are the vast majority of Americans who also voted for Bush in 2004 just as far out of the mainstream? When the majority elects someone, that is what is mainstream. I am not radical or extreme in the least bit. I’m pretty fairly moderate on most issues. I do see the need to defend America, and it’s citizens. I also respect the Constitution as the foundation of our land. The fact is that many on the left are constantly trying to change, add to, or interpret it, to fit to their own agendas.
You wouldn’t know hardcore leftist if it hit you in the face
Um, you are a liberal.
The Iranians were building a Nuclear Weapon back when the Shah was still in power. It’s nothing new, and by all measure they are at least 5 years way from that stage. Considering the Rummy and his buddies have altered U.S. policy to allow first strike Nuclear strikes against non nuclear countries. Is it any wonder that the Iranians feel threatened?
I am mystified at this radical statement. Are you actually condoning Iran getting nukes?
Are you suggesting that Iran is at least 5 years away from achieving nuclear capability? Where did you get this? Do you read the actual news (not just blogs)?
Is it any wonder that the Iranians feel threatened?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad threatens to wipe Israel off the map. He is actively and vocally pursuing nuclear weapons. He already has chemical weapons, according to the U.N.
Are you aware that the rest of the world is united in this? ‘We cannot accept Iran having a nuclear weapon’, that is the worldwide phrase of the day.
The Iranians were building a Nuclear Weapon back when the Shah was still in power
Does that not mean that there isn’t much time left before they actually have a weapon? I’m not following this logic of yours, since it fails to make any sense. They are, right this very moment, enriching uranium. They know what they are doing.
Are you aware of the European position? Are you aware, especially, of the French position? Jacques Chirac has said that any terrorist attack from Iran, would result in France striking Iran with nuclear warheads. That’s pretty serious talk, for a matter of such unimportance, as you claim. Is Chirac’s government as corrupt to you as you see Bush? Is Blair? Is Berlusconi? Is Merkel? You are aware of the EU position, are you not?
Should we wait until Iran has the weapon, then react? Wouldn’t that be just like lighting a match, inserting the flame into a gas can, then running after it explodes into a fireball?
You can attack me personally all you want, it does not change the facts. You know I’m right, I make sense, and now you are becoming very desperate. All you have to fall back on is nonsense and personal attacks.
Nightmare
Are you my nightmare? I’ll tell you a nightmare…it’s the day people like you ever gain power in America. I’ll make sure as much as I can personally, to not let that happen with my vote. Your blatant disregard for security is why liberals won’t have a majority of power for a long, long time.
Sorry about goofing the links but you can still reach them I think. If not let me know and I will provide them again. Sorry.
Logic lesson:
a) All politicians lie.
b) Bush is a politician.
statement: Bush said we are not spying, it is legal.
conclusion: Bush is lying!
Statement: Bush said there were weapons of mass destruction.
conclusion: Bush is lying!
But here is another statement for you to ponder on.
That sould make you feel safe in Peoria, Illinois.
Yes Bill Clinton did dodge draft and stated so right up front. But remember he is a politician also, and therefore lies. (is that sinking in yet)
I would love to answer any questions based upon verifiable facts. You keep quoting politically tainted sources, the White House (politicians) Fox News (owned by GOP corporate interests, fair and balanced my Ass) And CNN is only publishing the White House stuff.
You wave Jose Padilla as your only evidence, and even the government dropped the ‘dirty’ bomb part of the charges because they had no facts. Then held a U.S. citizen without charges for 2 years. (Which is Illegal.) If they truly had a case, couldn’t they charge him when they arrested him? Please answer that one.
All the other ‘Facts’ you quote, are hearsay, the word of ‘politicians’ operating on an hidden agenda.
Who is more dangerous in your opinion?
They both are. Not what you expected? I didn’t think so. Osama is a Islamic fascist terrorist, Bush is a NeoCon fascist dictator wannabe.
You can fight terrorist without having to become a dictatorship. And yes! If there was probably cause. As stated in the fourth Amendment of the constitution. Then warrants could be issued, even secret ones as covered in the FISA courts. But the government could not even pass this test, in secret.
Hence no probable cause, hence illegal.
If you quote the Patriot Act, an act introduced late at night, and passed by a congress that had no time to read what it really said. Then you are deluding yourself. This is the worst kind of consent. And based more upon your beloved emotional outrage than on reason. If there is resistance now surfacing from both Democrats and Republicans. It’s because they are realizing that what they passed in the dark, was wrong.
Also, what do you say about Italy, France, Germany, and UK doing the exact same thing?
I don’t care about these countries, they all have their own laws and their own way of dealing with it. This is like a child saying ‘Mommy, Everyone is doing it, why can’t I”
The U.S. is a country bound by Laws not by leaders.
As a note; Alito was coached to not answer questions, by republicans who also taught him to lie and twist the truth. A real pretty picture. Impartial Judge, I don’t think so.
The Commander in Chief is bound, even in a time of War to the same checks an balances as in peacetime.
Your so call ‘Vast’ majority didn’t even give Bush a majority vote in 2000. And only a 1% margin in 2004. He won only by 8,000 votes in Ohio where there are recorded voting irregularities due to voting machines.
from CNN:
So much for your ‘vast’ majority.
As for Iran, my point was this, when the Shah was in power. It was Ok for the Iranians to have weapons. And now it’s not.
I am not attacking you personally. I am countering your ‘facts’.
You know I’m right,…
I know you are wrong, not evil mind you, just misguided. I do not know why you are so ambitious to convert me. You won’t. I too am an independent thinker. A lot longer than you. I question authority, I doubt politicians, And use logic and reason to determine the truth.
I hacked my first computer program before you were born. And believe me I’m not impressed with your ‘masters’ . I have already taught CS at the university level.
I have computers in my shed older than you.
Game. Set.
Most Trusted
Democrats and Republicans Both Adept at Ignoring Facts, Study Finds
tracking terrorist networks
Motion calls spy charges illegal
All you’ve given me is conspricicy theories which are unproven. You can say that Bush lies all you want. Does that make it a fact, just because you repeat it enough times?
Bush only won by 8000 votes? Where did you get this? That was in one county alone in one state alone. Bush already had enough electoral votes in five other states besides Ohio anyhow. Ohio, despite perhaps what Dan Rather suggests, was not the tipping point. But to you Bush stole the elections, including all five recounts in 2000. Give me a break!
I am impressed with your age. I thought age brings wisdom, not paranoia.
You are an extremly paranoid person. You are a conspiricy theorist who believes that there are black helicopters in the sky out to get you.
I am realistic and understand that we were attacked on Set. 11, 2001, by al-Qaida, and know that these fanatics want to do it again and again to us and others.
As for Iran, my point was this, when the Shah was in power. It was Ok for the Iranians to have weapons. And now it’s not.
Not until now, did they ever have any capability.
You keep quoting politically tainted sources, the White House (politicians) Fox News (owned by GOP corporate interests, fair and balanced my Ass) And CNN is only publishing the White House stuff.
Huh? Tainted? What isn’t tainted? If ABC, CBS, or NBC says it will that satisfy you? CNN tends to lean to the left, yet even that isn’t good enough for you. Is Daily KOS your source of fair news?
a) All politicians lie.
b) Bush is a politician.
OK so, by your logic, Bill Clinton’s dictatorship was succeeded by Bush’s? Who will be the next dictator of America? This question you pose (logically) is absolutely absurd!
Bush is Hitler! How many times must you scream this nonsense? Are you aware that Hitler gassed millions of Jews and tried to exterminate every last one of them? Are you actually comparing George W. Bush to that type of behavior and practice? If so, you are far far more unhinged than I ever imagined.
How is it mainstream to call the president a dictator? Isn’t that a bit extreme?
Like it or not he won two elections. Get over it. The campaign is over. The liberals in the Democratic Party ought to start coming up with some ideas of their own, not just Bush bashing, if they ever expect to get elected. If they can’t, are we going to have to put up with 4-8 more years of this type of nonsence when another Republican gets elected? I’m pretty sure this will be the case. It’s funny how despite attacks against Republicans from every angle, they continue to win seats in Congress. They win the last three out of four Presidential elections, and as a result, will gain seats on the Supreme Court. Is it perhaps because the majority of Americans want it that way? By the way, didn’t Clinton run on a B.S. healthcare platform, that never actually ever materialized? Didn’t he also defeat HW Bush by a narrow margin, and only because of H. Ross Perot, did Clinton win anyhow? It’s true. Remember history? It’s not exactly ancient history.
Bark all you want. It does not and will not change the facts of reality. By the way, did you actually even read the links I provided?
The Commander in Chief is bound, even in a time of War to the same checks an balances as in peacetime.
Have you ever read the Constitution, or are you just going by what other bloggers are saying? The president has a duty to command during war. Gathering intelligence is part of this, especially in this particular case, since we are at war with an ideology, not particular countries. How else are we to determine where or whom to attack? To you we just plain shouldn’t attack. To you we are the bad guys, and how dare us retaliate such attacks?
Also, since it is Constitutional, and this will be determined in court, where does that leave you?
Why do you hate America? Are we truly evil to you? Wait, it’s only the conservative who is evil, not the baby aborting, porn watching, dope smoking, casual group bisexual sex having, anticapitalist, antiprofit, atheist liberal, huh?
I’m sorry, but I find your argument to be categorically ridiculous.
I hacked my first computer program before you were born. And believe me I’m not impressed with your ‘masters’ . I have already taught CS at the university level.
I have computers in my shed older than you
My education isn’t to impress you. It is for myself and to impress employers.
I’m glad that you have a bunch of old crappy computers in your shed. I too have some old crappy computers in my basemnet from when I was a young kid, which are entirely useless to me, so what? I even have an old Macintosh, wow! What the hell is your point? What does this have to do with our debate? I mentioned my education, since you did, and I wanted to clarify your assumption that you are so much more well informed and/or educated than I. I argue that you are not. You say you teach CS at the university level. If so, how does that make you such an expert outside of that field (ie politics)? Are you a political science professor? If not, what the hell does education have to do with any of this? How in the hell is this even a single bit relavant?
I do not know why you are so ambitious to convert me.
I assure you that I’m not trying to convert you or anyone. Be a liberal all you want. I’m fine with that. I have zero problem with that. It is the blind criticism of the president, during war especially, that I find so disturbing. I wish that Americans could be united like we were for about three or four weeks after 9/11. That would be awesome. If we could actually do that, we could shred al-Qaida with ease, and any other faction, group or rouge nation which threatens us and our allies. Being under constant scrutiny on how we conduct the war, only for partidsan gain, is completely unAmerican and it only hand victory dierectly to the enemy. Sure, we can and should be critical, but not on the battlefield, but after victory has already been achieved.
Nobody expects every individual to think exactly the same. I even disagree with many fellow conservatives on issues.
One thing we all have in common, is the fact that we’re Americans. That fact, makes us all targets to al-Qaida. Why we are divided on how or why to stop them from attacking us, is beyond me. Why are we so awfully divided in how or why to protect ourselves?
Is al-Qaida not going to attack an American, if they are a liberal? They don’t care! They want to kill children. That alone ought to be enough for every single American to be united in stopping this from ever happening again.
George W. Bush isn’t perfect. he is merely a man. Everyone makes some mistakes. However, blind criticism on behalf of his every move, causes nothing more than blind ignorance.
We should be happy that he is willing to put his reputation on the line to help protect us, since that actually is his #1 duty as president. He risked it all (presidency), and yet was still reelected in 2004. What does that tell you? Perhaps this suggests that he actually has integrity, and believes that what he is doing is good.
He freed 50,000,000 Arabs from tyrannical rule. We are free, and now so are they. Who are we to deny anyone freedom, especially given our status as a becon of freedom? Shouldn’t we fight for freedom, and help others achieve it? If we just ignore evil, doesn’t that make us just as guilty as the evil itself? Do we just ignore others who are not free, just because we are free? Doesn’t the thought of worldwide freedom and democracy lead you to believe that this will eventually lead to worldwide peace?
Why oppose that?
You are on an ego trip! Do you ego surf the internet all day, or just part of the day?
If this were a debate? You will have to bring more than your ranting and name calling to the table.
Age doesn’t necessarily bring wisdom, but if that age is tempered with broad experience as mine has. You learn a great deal, and it does make you wise. I hope you grow up and learn the world as it is. Wisdom is good, you’ll enjoy it when it happens to you.
OK so, by your logic, Bill Clinton’s dictatorship was succeeded by Bush’s?
Bill Clinton did not violate the Constitution’s check’s and balances. And did not have pretensions to Dictatorship.
And Yes I have and do read the Constitution. The U.S. Constitution Online Maybe you should too.
since we are at war with an ideology, not particular countries.
So why are we attacking countries, and not Ideologies?
If you want to win a war with another ideology, you uphold the best example of what you stand for. Torture, secret prisons, spying on your own citizens, violating their civil rights, violating your own constitution and taking bribes is not a good example to hold up to the world as a better ideology.
You have to BE better than the alternative. Not just say you are better. And the U.S. deserves a better representative than that presented by the current administration.
Blind criticism… You are guilty of this.
And yes, Clinton is guilty of breaking constitutional law. He was impeached and disbarred as a result, remember?
You continue to dodge my questions, so I can see that it does no good to ask them. You are just like the people who turn their backs to speakers during a speech and then leave when it’s debate time.
I don’t need to look at an online constitution, as it is tattooed on my brain’s memory. I was tested three times throughout my education so far, and I aced it every time.
If this were a debate? You will have to bring more than your ranting and name calling to the table.
When have I called you a name? You misunderstand apparently. I have only described your behavior, for example, wacko, as in wacko idea of what America is or how you wish it should be, which by the way, has never been like.
is not a good example to hold up to the world as a better ideology.
Than what? Tyranny? Communism? Dictatorship? Actual real Nazism? What are you talking about? So since the Republicans have won lately, all of a sudden America is not free anymore? What are you smoking? It’s clouding your brain!
You only, once again read and listen to what you want.
As far as being united to protect ourselves, I charge that people like yourself pose just as much of a threat as the terrorists themselves if you are so quick to ignore the threat, blindly criticize any effort to stop it, and actually insist that the real problem is America itself. You sound just like Cindy Sheehan. By the way, she is a traitor, since she actually not only sides with our enemies, but even visits their homes.
I’m not worried about Bush causing me harm, particularly bodily harm. Al-Qaeda promises to try.
It’s impossible it seems, for you to grasp any bit of reality as to the situation we are faced with. Al-Qaeda would kill you just as quickly as they would me. These terrorists are so radically insane and brainwashed, that they actually think that they are doing God a favor to kill us and that 72 virgins await them in Heaven after they commit suicide to kill us. The whole concept is foreign to someone like me. We are dealing with a real and true evil. This IslamoFacismis the evil of our generation. We absolutely must deal with it. Cowering is not a very good option, and should be 110% out of the question by 100% of Americans. Unfortunately this is not the case.
Liberal or conservative is 110% irrelevant. We will probably need another major 9/11-type of attack or two for it to finally sink in to you that these people wish to destroy our civilization. If they can, they will. This is why it is so important for rouge nations like Iran, a known and admitted sponsor of terror, must not ever get nuclear weapons. Should we just assume that they won’t give or sell them to terrorist millionaires like Osama bin Laden to use them on our cities or other West friendly targets?
I do not want division and I offer a common neutrality when concerning the war. I don’t want war, I want victory. Once that is achieved, we can bring our boys home. Once they are out of harms way, will be the time to question ‘how was the war fought and was it done legally’. Those who broke laws can be dealt with after our troops are no longer in danger of being blown up.
Are you aware that in WWII, the federal government did much more surveillance than Bush ever has? Sure there was criticism, but not to the extent that we now see. It’s beyond ridiculous. It harms our own National Security when information gets leaked that let’s the enemy know what we are doing to stop them. It’s plain wrong. I do not care if the so-called spying is legal or not. If it’s not, then we should pass legislation to make it legal, plain and simple. I would rather know that something is being done about it, rather than a Clinton-like move of turning a blind eye.
Also, you keep insisting that the NSA is spying on average citizens, yet have failed to offer any evidence of this, and deafen your ears and blind your eyes to anyone who tells you otherwise of your claim. Not just Bush, but many officials withing the government, many not affiliated with Bush, have also said what the White House says: We are conducting intelligence on international calls between known terrorists. Waiting for a warrant will be wasting precious time. I can not figure out why you are so paranoid that you think you yourself are being spied on (hypothetically). That is, unless you are a contributor to terrorism against America, or other free nations. Why are you so paranoid? Do you have something you wish to hide? I want the government to know that I’m helping them and aiding them to defeat terror. I’m willing to cooperate and do my little part to help. Why all Americans are not is beyond my understanding, other than, I am aware that there are people within our country who actually hate and despise America, and wish our downfall, destruction, and defeat. These people are traitors, and should be thrown out. Don’t give me the free speech malarkey, because that’s way beyond free speech. So is a hate crime. Treason against all Americans is much worse in my opinion. I love America, even libs. i would fight to defend them, if need be. Traitors of America are a very dangerous enemy. There was a time when traitors were hung. I’m not suggesting that you are a traitor, but i am suggesting that there are traitors of America, on the far left, as well as the far right –and some very militant, on both sides. Neither of these types of groups are good for America.
What is good for America is debate. However, debate is to be fair. Lies from either side are unacceptable, but I argue that it is also a lie to claim lying, when no proof has been presented. Anyone can claim anything, but without substantiation, it is meaningless.
This war, as has been stated from the beginning, will take a long time. It may never end. there may always be the threat of terror. If we can continue to have the upper hand, this will be the key to preventing death and destruction in the homeland.
Speaking of unnecessary attacks, did we ,i>need to attack Yugoslavia, Haiti, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia under Clinton? Do you also criticise these useless attacks? Were any of those countries a threat?
Sometimes, you know, you have to look beyond your own tunnel vision and envision the big picture.
Your own constant paranoid ranting, I find disturbing. Also, blind criticism invites ignorance. If you refuse to believe otherwise what is etched into your grey-matter, how are you learning about other perspectives? Do you only mean others perspective that agree with yours?
I agree that we need to have constructive criticism, but there is a HUGE difference between constructive criticism and blind criticism, the type of blind criticism that scrutinizes every single move, only for partisan gain.
It pretty much makes me sick to my stomach to hear people do this. They actually choose to lose a war for political gain. How messed up is that?
We are in the war. Don’t you at least want to win? Are you actually on the side of defeat? Please don’t doge this question, like you have so many times before. I want to know, once and for all. Do you side with us (America), or those who wish to destroy us? Do you even care?
If Congress passes legislation granting “spying” rights, then do you still disagree? After all, that would be the fair way of “checks and balances”. Before you dismiss this so quickly, you ought to highly consider this, as this will be a topic of debate in Congress, I assure you.
One more thing, since you are such an expert on the US Constitution, you should know what branches of government play what roles for war. It is the executive government which is responsible for war. Congress can declare war or not, but the president has the right to override any decision concerning the military. The only type of legislation that Congress can pass is the funding for the war. So far, there has been no proposal to cut off funds for the war, so it is easy to assume that they do not oppose it as much as the media might have you believe.
Concerning the courts and FISA, the courts do not have the right to interfere with military options. The FISA court was not established for the purpose of war. If the court tries to interrupt or interfere with war strategy, that is unconstitutional.
Just a little lesson for you on government and civics.
As far as iraq goes, they have democracy now. Afghanistan has democracy. Palestinian territories just had elections. Lebenon had elections. See the trend? It is like a domino effect. This region has never had this until now, and they love it. The proof of this is the voters casting their ballots by the millions. Hopefully, in the future this will be a worldwide trend.
I do think that what we have done is good. We are not perfect, but we are still the beacon for democracy on this planet, and have been helping to spread it for our entire existence. Why stop now?
One last note: one cannot impose democracy. That is an oxymoron. We allow democracy to take place by removing the oppressive tyranny.
Speaking of unnecessary attacks, did we , need to attack Yugoslavia, Haiti, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia under Clinton? Do you also criticise these useless attacks? Were any of those countries a threat?
They may have been useless. But they were done, with the exception of Iraq, each for a separate and different reason. And the only one that makes no sense is Iraq. That is the problem.
There was NO REASON to attack Iraq!!!! Except to get the Oil!!!
Afghanistan at least was somewhat Righteous, they were harboring Al-Qaida. And guess what, you don’t hear anyone complain about that one.
It’s Iraq! Stupid, focus! This was NOT THE SAME THING!!!
I will answer any real question you ask. So I will answer the one question I saw that did make sense.
We are in the war. Don’t you at least want to win?
Yes, but I know that you CAN NOT win a war of ‘ideology’ the way the war in Iraq is being waged. Bush and company are either stupid beyond comprehension or they know this and have another motivation.
I will refer you to a book, since you claim you read them. The Art of War by Sun Tzu
This book is over 2000 years, you want wisdom, here it is.
A couple more points:
1) 110% of anything is non-sense, it looks like you are ignorant of math.
2) Wacko, is name calling, and it is personal, though meaningless.
Along with all the other meaningless ‘tags’ you use to demean your opponent. These tags, to an intelligent person, render your arguments worthless, and undermines your creditability.
And since you have lost all creditability at this stage, with me, and any audience who might be reading this. You should save your bandwidth and go back to your books.
Along with all the other meaningless ‘tags’ you use to demean your opponent. These tags, to an intelligent person, render your arguments worthless, and undermines your creditability.
It’s Iraq! Stupid, focus! This was NOT THE SAME THING!!!
I will also call you a hypocrite. You have called me a name:stupid. But I suppose your superior intelligence over me makes you toatally immune to any criticism for the exact same thing.
…and you still refuse to answer my questions.
yes, but I know that you CAN NOT win a war of ‘ideology’ the way the war in Iraq is being waged. Bush and company are either stupid beyond comprehension or they know this and have another motivation.
Motivation? …and on your side, speculation? Where is your evidence of this?
Yes, you can, and we are winning the war. When a democracy is established, that is precisely how the war is won. Democratic nations tend to discourage terrorism. It does not take a genius to know this. I know children who have been able to figure this out on their own.
I myself am trying hard to refrain from the type of anger you have expressed. You are obviously on the kook fringe of the left.
demean your opponent
You mean by constantly professing and suggesting superior intelligence over those who disagree with you, and even calling them ‘stupid’? That’s exactly what you have done! Hypocrite. Why can’t you walk the walk?
Why are still you afraid to answer any of my questions?
And since you have lost all creditability at this stage, with me, and any audience who might be reading this
Is this a sentence? Since I never had any credibility with you to begin with, or your leftist audience who reads this…all five of them, who the hell cares?
To yourself, you are the one who is never wrong. You, actually lack the ability to ever be wrong, correct?
You are totally full of B.S. I’m so awfully glad that people like yourself keep barking and howling like you do. Keep it up. You expose your true nature when you do this, and people get the chance to see how irrational you sound. The results at the polls in November, ought to be more overwhelming than ever.
1) 110% of anything is non-sense, it looks like you are ignorant of math.
What? And you claim that I’m the one who is ignorant? So since you are absolutely wrong, I will refer you to a calculator. 1.1*2=2.2
Anyway, that is beside the point. It was used as a figure of speech, but obviously that is over your head. You failed to miss the point that al-Qeada does not care that you hate Bush too. But if they did, are you going to take the position of al-Qeada?
You contine to attempt to insult my intelligence. It’s not working, however, just to let you know, and I always have a response. You continue to dodge my questions, and instead change the subject. How convenient for you.
Along with all the other meaningless ‘tags’ you use to demean your opponent.
Another fragment sentence, speaking of intelligent people…
I’m tired of this becoming personal.
It’s Iraq! Stupid, focus! This was NOT THE SAME THING!!! There was NO REASON to attack Iraq!!!! Except to get the Oil!!!
Wow, you are unhinged and out of control in your anger aren’t you?
If this was about oil, where is all of this oil? Why aren’t we importing oil from Iraq? Why, instead are we paying $60-$80 per barrel for oil? You cannot answer this question either can you?
Speaking of unnecessary attacks, did we , need to attack Yugoslavia, Haiti, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia under Clinton? Do you also criticise these useless attacks? Were any of those countries a threat?
They may have been useless. But they were done, with the exception of Iraq, each for a separate and different reason. And the only one that makes no sense is Iraq. That is the problem.
Are you saying that the two seperate attacks against Iraq on Clinton’s watch were also useless and wrong? Also, was the first invasion against Iraq, in 1991, sponsored by the U.N. and NATO, also wrong? Just wondering.
They made sense? Why because Clinton did it? Is this what I am to assume, since you offer no actual rationale as to why you claim this? Yogoslavia was because of genocide, and mass graves. Remember the Kurds? They were gassed in Hitler-like fashion. Women and children were executed and tortured by Saddam. Your little buddy Saddam is evil as hell, and his regime is now replaced by a representative government.
Is Iraq better off under Saddam or under their new democratically elected representative government? Did the people of Iraq want to be opressed by Saddam Hussein? Think about it. This one is not hard to figure out.
I know that you CAN NOT win a war of ‘ideology’ the way the war in Iraq is being waged.
Agreed, contant scrutiny and blind criticism is not how to win a war. Questioning every single stategic move to the point that you reveal intelligence secrets to the enemy, is not how to win the war. Calling the president, the real terrorist is not how to win the war. Anti-American propaganda, from American citizens, that the enemy also hears, is not how to win the war.
I am assuming that war is always wrong and evil to you, no matter the reason or provocation. If this is not the case, then when is war justifiable? How is Yugoslavia different than Iraq, in regard to mass graves? We unseated Milosovic, but to unseat Hussein is evil?
You obviously cannot justify a reasonable answer to this, or any of my other questions for that matter.
Why do you think I ask these questions? Do you think I am trying to demean you by asking them? I truly am asking your opinion and response. It’s called debate. Then when I give you a valid argument of why I disagree, you become completely unhinged.
You have serious anger issues, don’t you? Take a deep breath. Everything’s going to be okay. Think happy thoughts…..
Now please have the courage to answer my questions like a rational person, if this is at all possible.
I always encourage debate, as this is what makes America what it is. It is the sharing of ideas and views.
you want wisdom, here it is
When you shut out any opposition to your own ideology, you only pave the way for your own ignorance.
I had one more thought after I clicked to submit.
This post was originally about the NSA program, and now we’re not even discussing this any longer.
This totally proves my points.
No matter what Bush does, it is wrong to you. He could take a crap, and you will say he didn’t wipe his ass correctly.
The simple answers for a simple question.
We are talking about the Iraq war, as that is your justification of the NSA illegal spying.
I did not call Bush Hitler, you did. I only called him a dictator and a Nazi.
I do not blindly criticize, you blindly believe Bush and his Neo-Con buddies.
I see, I guess ‘Stupid’ could be just a measure of intelligence.
I am not angry, I truly feel sad that you are so misguided, and so easily frighten, that your only recourse is to lash out at others not of your opinion.
When a democracy is established, that is precisely how the war is won. Democratic nations tend to discourage terrorism. It does not take a genius to know this.
And this is completely interesting in the light of Hamas winning the Majority in a Democratic election in Palestine. Does this mean you will claim that this wasn’t a democratic election? How about Venezuela, are they a democracy? Or is it only a democratic election, when the results are in you favor?
So did we win in Palestine?
To get 110%, of 100% of a finite something means that the 100% wasn’t 100%!
If this was about oil, where is all of this oil? Why aren’t we importing oil from Iraq? Why, instead are we paying $60-$80 per barrel for oil? You cannot answer this question either can you?
The Iraqi oil has been pumped out to U.S. and British refineries to the tune of 1 to 2 million barrels a day for more than 18 months. And the oil companies are not telling anyone what they are paying for it. It is not being sold on the the commodity market. The Iraqi oil ministry have no records as to how much has been paid for the oil. It is you who has no Idea how much ‘we’ the oil companies, are paying for it.
Is Iraq better off under Saddam or under their new democratically elected representative government?
You could ask the 30,000 to 50,000 dead Iraqis? In a year you could ask again, if they can keep it. If they want to keep it, it will probably a great deal different that what you ‘want’ them to have. Of it could be like what the Palestinian people have elected.
I am assuming that war is always wrong and evil to you
War is hell, and the last resort of (real) diplomats. It has, and will happen.
Yes it IS a matter of reason, from high Moral ground, and with no recourse, and as a last resort. Iraq was none of these things.
When you shut out any opposition to your own ideology, you only pave the way for your own ignorance.
Hence, your Ignorance! I am so sorry for you and your blind belief in politicians like Bush. Have I prevented your blind espousal of your ideology? But you would have me cease my discourse in favor of your beliefs. Yet you have no facts upon which to base your ideology.
So did we win in Palestine?
There is a Palestine? Don’t you mean Palestinian territories within Israel? You meant Gaza and West Bank, correct? We aren’t at war with Israel. They already had elections before, ten years ago, remember Arafat? Democracy is not new to Palestinians.
Hamas winning the elction is disconcerning, but time will tell what happens of this. One example cannot override many more examples of democratic success. In the case of Chavez in Venezuela, elections are known to be botched, and opposition was halted by the government. Remeber Iraq also had ‘elections’, but oppositon disappeared.
Yet you have no facts upon which to base your ideology.
uhuh….Um, On 9/11 America was attacked. This discussion is about securing America. That is what I base my ideology on.
Whether or not Bush, Gore, or Kerry were president, is irrelevant to me, in this. I would feel the exact same way as I do in this situation, no matter who was president. You attempt to affiliate me with Bush, but it’s not going to work, because it evades the truth.
I am a patriot of America. When we were attacked under Clinton’s watch, I demanded more security as well. Unfortunately, we didn’t do enough to protect ourselves then. I also think that we’re not doing enough to protect ourselves now, including the failure to seal our borders. However, I will concede that George W. Bush is doing a lot more than some have wished we do, and I commend him for having the courage and disregard for his own political future by risking it for the sake of doing what is right and best for America. I have many gripes with Bush, but this discussion is not about Bush-bashing, at least to me. To you, it totally is.
I feel that we are threatened, and people like yourself who simply blow off the threat are not good for our future security. Furthermore, the constant Bush-bashing is a transparent attempt at partisan politics. If Kerry were doing the same as Bush, would you constantly criticize him? I will answer this for you, since I know you don’t have the courage to. The answer is no, and you and I both know it.
Admit this: you’ve hated Bush since January 2001.
You could ask the 30,000 to 50,000 dead Iraqis? In a year you could ask again, if they can keep it. If they want to keep it, it will probably a great deal different that what you ‘want’ them to have. Of it could be like what the Palestinian people have elected.
You could ask the hundreds of thousands of iraqis buried in mass graves who were executed (including women and children) under Saddam. You could ask the Kurds, who were gassed in their villages, by chemical weapons again, under Saddam (including women and children). You could ask the thousands of tortured, including amputations, mutliations, and so forth, again under Saddam.
30,000 to 50,000 dead Iraqis
Are those deaths because of American troops or from bombings from terrorists? Is it our fault that al-Qeada is blowing up other Arabs? Are you aware that Iraqis are also fighting al-Qeada in Iraq? Did you forget that we are training Iraqi soldiers, for what?…to fight against terrorists.
You are the one with the closed mind. I go out of my way, to have an open mind. I can easily forsee your closed minded tunnelvision, because you yourself have exposed it.
Saddam Hussein gave $25,000 to the families of Palestinian terrorists. This has been proven, and is widely known. This makes Saddam a sponsor of terror! Why can’t you get this through your obstinate skull?
Evading and changing the subject does not frighten me. It only exposes your own weakness to debate with me. Furtherore, you still refuse to answer any of my most relevant questions.
War is hell, and the last resort of (real) diplomats. It has, and will happen.
True, and 11 years of U.N. resolutions, and 18 months of further resolutions under Bush, was a complete failure, on the part of the U.N. So that equals 12.5 years of diplomatic solutions, which were a sheer and utter failure, if not a complete joke. Saddam was given more than enough opportunity, and he thumbed his nose at the world. In fact, the U.N. has now been found to be a major part of this with the Oil For Food scandal, which is one of the major reasons why it refused to act against Saddam’s regime. He was lining their pockets.
I’m sorry but you, yourself seem to be the one who is ignorant on the facts. You claim I don’t have the facts, even though I provide them time and time again. You just refuse to listen to them, because apparently the truth scares you, because it suggests that you are wrong about the facts.
I do not blindly criticize
This blog does nothing but criticize, if Bush is the subject. The amount of anger and hatred towards one single person that you have for this guy is mountainous.
The Iraqi oil has been pumped out to U.S. and British refineries to the tune of 1 to 2 million barrels a day for more than 18 months
I know. Other counties are importing oil from Iraq as well, including Turkey. I did not suggest that there is zero oil. I am suggesting that oil production is at its lowest, given that Iraq is one of the most oil rich counries on the planet. If we went there specifically for oil, why does Iraq have it’s own oil minister? Why didn’t we just seize their oil, if we went there to ‘steal’ it?
Sorry, but you are full of lies, you twist the truth to fit you personal agenda, which attempts to sound like you’re significant in any way.
I am a humble American partiot who wants what is best for America.
Back to the NSA program, which you keep evading for some reason, I am glad to tell the government anything they need to know. I have nothing to hide, and I am not an enemy of America. If they actually wanted to take the time, money, resources, and manpower to ‘spy’ on me, why would I care? I am not concerned about being spied upon, and further even if I was, what would become of it, since I am a law abiding citizen?
I am happy to tell the government whatever they need to know, all they would have to do is ask, and I would be more than willing to do my part to help protect America. That is what patriots do, not criticize the government from every single angle when all they are attempting to do is to protect you.
Now, that being said, I’d appreciate if we could stick to the subject of original debate, otherwise this debate is over, since it would only be nothing more than childish fodder. I’m above that.
I believe that the NSA program is a vital and crucial part of gathering intelligence on our enemy. This is no different from ‘spying’ on the Rosenbergs. If there are Americans who are siding with the enemy, that pretty much forfeits their citizenship. If they are directly aiding the enemy, with communications or whatever else, they are the enemy as well, otherwise known as enemy combatants, i.e. John Walker Lindh –types. Not all of the enemies of America and the terrorism involved with our enemies are involved with actual suicide bombing attacks. The logistics from within America are, in fact, as much, if not more of a threat, especially if the logisitcs are coming from terrorists in America, or terrorists posing as Americans (refer to my previous statement about forfeiting citizenship).
I pray, everday, that we can preserve the peace and freedom that America prospers from. I love my country. It saddens me that there are some who don’t feel the same. On the other hand, it comforts me to know that the majority of Americans feel the same as me, as proven by election polls (polls which actually matter). I do not think that it will stop after Bush. Further, since the Democrats are merely playing partisan politics, in hopes to regain power, I do not think that much policy will change, if they become the majority. It is only the kooky left wing that feels the way you profess, not the majority of Americans. Kerry had somewhat wide support throughout America, but he is known as the ‘better tahn Bush’ candidate to most Democrats. Kerry is very left wing. The American people, if they are going to elect a Dmeocrat, want a better candidate than that. I have never said that I myself wouldn’t vote for a decent Democratic candidate, as again, I’m an independant. I won’t vote for hardcore left-wing candidates, which seem to have taken over the Party. Unfortunatley for America, the hard left has taken over the Party, and Howard Dean is a nutcase, and a compulsive liar. He is leading the Party in a downward spiral of defeat.
The Party’s best hope would be a cadidate like Zell Miller.
I think, unless Miller runs, we will have another Republican president elect in 08. This may be McCain. I’m not a huge fan of his, but perhaps his ability to unite America is what we truly need. I do think that he has this ability to attract both sides on policy. Maybe Guliani will run with him, or perhaps Gingrich. Sorry, I myself have become guily of drifting from the subject at hand.
The point is that most Americans are not as shocked as you about the ‘spying’.
Furthermore I urge you to refer to the Combating Terrorism Act of 2001. This act gives legal justification for the NSA program, aside from other Constitutional authorities and obligations of the president. Notice that this legislation isbipartisan. Conventiently, Democrats want us to forget history, but 2001 was not very long ago.
Now, you can blindly criticize the government and refuse to accept truth and reality, in Cindy Sheehan-like fashion, or you can try to have an open mind, and accept that we are in danger of more attacks and attempting to thwart and prevent more attacks are done in good nature and with limited ‘invasion of privacy’.
You act as if Bush invented this type of spying in the first place. He is only using technology which already existed before his presidency.
The FISA act was written in 1978, and needs to be revised, since it does not account for new technological advances in communications. If we don’t, the enemy has cutting edge technology support, and ours is from 1978. Also, the act, does not account for terrorist threats, which now should be included.
The Judicail branch of the government, does not have authority in war matters. Neither does the legislative, other than the funding of it. Only the executive does, and this is the most significant and crucial command of the branch.
Since U.S. courts only have juristicion in America, international calls do not fall into this anyhow, therefore warrants are unneeded, and require instead military authority, which the president is commander of according to the Constitution of the United States of America.
And finally, we now know according to ‘polls’ that most Americans don’t disaprove of warrantless wiretaps to reduce the threat of terrorism.
Remeber Iraq also had ‘elections’, but oppositon disappeared.
I failed to specify: elections for Saddam. He got 100% of the vote. Nobody gets 100% of the vote unless they force it.
When a leader is a true dictator, he gets 100% of the vote.
When Bush got 51%, he cannot be claimed to be a dictator. Dicators force the vote of 100%. There is obvious opposition to Bush. However, this opposition has not been ‘shut up’, in fact, it is handed a silver platter by ABC,CBS,NBC, and CNN.
So there goes the ‘Bush is a dictator’ argument, out the window.
…this debate is over…
I’m glad you got that off your chest.